R.P.Geeeee is that a SPIDER?!?! with Ravensridge Emporium
For more incredible photos, check out @theravensridgeemporium on Instagram.
Episode Summary
In today's episode we're chatting to the delightful Brandon and Jessie from the Ravensridge Emporium! Fellow Aussies, Dice makers, purveyors of insect oblivion and the brains behind the wildly successful kickstarter, Cartograph, a solo, map-making RPG.
“You can follow the journey of my hyper-fixations. So yeah, there's dice making, decorative potions, Etymology….”.. wait, what? “Yeah, one day I just woke up and I was like, bugs are cool, so I started going ham on them. You know, like little domes and the frames that you often see in, like, tattoo parlours, with a insect spread out.” Brandon chimed in “I'm surprised you didn't talk about the other new one you're doing. Which? The one where you bought a bunch of those tiny, like, human figurines for dollhouses. She's going to put them all in a pile, cover them in blood, and have an insect on top.”
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[00:00:15] Speaker A: G'day everyone, and welcome to the Talking Dice podcast. Whether you're a dice maker, collector, or just a tabletop rpg lover, we've got you covered. I'm Aaron, the host of the show and author of the Crick Maker Guide to Dice Craft, now available on Amazon.
Running a podcast in 2024 is expensive with hardware, hosting, production and advertising costs us a large sum of money each month. If you like this podcast, please consider a one time donation via Ko Fi. Or if you love it, please consider supporting us on Patreon. For details, please check out our website talkingdice co. In todays episode, were chatting to Brandon and Jesse from the Ravens Ridge Emporium. Fellow Aussies, dice makers, purveyors of insect oblivion, and the brains behind the wildly successful Kickstarter, a solo map making rpg. Alright, let's chat about some roleplaying. Now, I believe you're both kind of connoisseurs of role playing games that aren't dungeons and dragons.
[00:01:11] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I think so. Got a couple things we're playing at the moment where we're playing mothership at the moment with my online group. It's a great OSR, sort of Sci-Fi horror role playing game. It's really, really good. And the GM we've got at the moment, he's the other raven that isn't. He lives in Tassie, the third raven of Ravens Ridge, and he's an excellent GM. He just knows how to set a scene and his character voices are fantastic and he does so much. We use foundry as our VTT. Nick does a fantastic job with the VTT. He sets so much stuff up, so many macros. It's so immersive. There's an example. When I was playing last night, I think we had our most recent I had interfaced with an AI that was controlling the ship. And then as I did so, a little console popped up in the VTT and I could actually chat with dialogue with the AI in this little console screen that popped up. And I would talk back to me, how do you do this, Nick? This is incredible.
[00:02:08] Speaker A: That's nuts. Yeah. I mean, that just takes it to a whole other level, doesn't it?
Do you do any of your own role playing games?
[00:02:15] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:02:16] Speaker A: As a group or.
[00:02:17] Speaker B: Yeah, we do. So there's one we're working on at the moment and I don't, I don't really know when it's going to be ready, but we want to make sure we do a lot of playtesting for it because we tend to a lot of our games have been solo or gm less games that we've made, but this is going to be our foray into more traditional group play where you have a game master and players. It's called Alpha directive and it's also a Sci-Fi one. And we've been playing that a bit lately too, just to sort of tease out some of the rules and tests different scenarios and stuff like that. So it's kind of been, it hasn't been like a big sprawling campaign. It's sort of just been liked I a little bit disjointed scenes and things like that in the game to really test out the mechanics, but we've been like playing that a bit as well.
[00:02:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Cool. Has Sci-Fi always been the thing you're most interested in or.
[00:02:56] Speaker B: No, actually, I don't think so. It just happens that right now, this point in time, Sci-Fi would seem like my most favorite genre because looking at.
[00:03:04] Speaker A: The cosplay and all of that that you guys do for your conventions and stuff, it looks pretty hardcore fantasy.
[00:03:11] Speaker B: I think our mainstay is like Victorian Gothic sort of stuff, whether it's horror or just plain old fantasy adventure. Like, that's the sort of way we like to play. And Ravens Ridge is the name of a city that we sort of homebrewed before the business existed. And so we've kind of had a long running campaign in that for the past like five years or something that we still play as well.
[00:03:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Wow.
[00:03:33] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's Victorian Gothic, you know, vampires, werewolves, all that fun stuff.
[00:03:37] Speaker A: And Victorian Gothic Sci-Fi is the next iteration.
That would almost be like a bit of a Warhammer vibe, wouldn't it?
[00:03:46] Speaker B: Surely it will.
[00:03:47] Speaker A: You know, you got the tall cathedrals and the robotic vampire killing machines and all of that.
[00:03:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. That could be cool, actually. Yeah.
[00:03:57] Speaker A: There you go. All right, that's. That's the next one.
[00:04:00] Speaker B: We heard it here first.
[00:04:01] Speaker C: That sounds good. I feel like we have enough ideas. Stop feeding us more ideas.
[00:04:07] Speaker A: I know what that's like. I think once you kind of get into that entrepreneurial mindset, you know, it's like, oh, what do we do next?
[00:04:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:13] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:04:14] Speaker A: What's the next thing? What's the next adventure?
[00:04:17] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:04:18] Speaker A: Now, you mentioned there's another raven in the mix. How many ravens are there exactly?
[00:04:23] Speaker B: There's three in total. Three of us. So it's Jesse, me, and Nick. He's like a newer edition. We've been friends since I was like six. Oh, wow. We've always made games and stuff together. But now we're sort of making it a bit more formal because he's released his own games under his own name and stuff, too. But we're going to sort of start bringing things in and relaunching some of his games with some more rule tweaks and all that kind of stuff. And he's just a brilliant designer and stuff, too, so we're pretty. You know, he's only joined the last couple of months, I think.
[00:04:49] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:04:51] Speaker B: Very recently. And so we just sort of got to the point where we realized we need another set of hands to just help us managing. I mean, as you know, it's. It's a lot of work running your own business. Right. It's.
[00:05:01] Speaker A: It is no small fee.
[00:05:03] Speaker B: You're never not working right.
[00:05:04] Speaker A: And you've just got to know everything. You've got to know the marketing and the product design and development and web design, graphic design.
It's just exhausting sometimes, isn't it?
[00:05:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:18] Speaker C: One person usually runs a show, but it's kind of the goal that we've had for our business is that we'd love to bring more, like, family and friends on board. And often I'll go to my friend, I'll be like, do you have anything that we could put into Ravens Ridge? Like, I want to help everyone succeed around me, so it's only natural that we start adopting our friends.
[00:05:39] Speaker A: That's so awesome. I just wish I had more friends that make awesome nerdy stuff. I would like to.
I've got a friend who's making whips for burlesque shows.
[00:05:51] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:05:52] Speaker A: Which is pretty cool. So, yeah, I can't figure out how to tie that into my business, but maybe at some point.
[00:05:58] Speaker B: Yeah, nerdy whips. Let's go.
[00:06:03] Speaker A: Now. The Ravens Ridge Emporium. How long have you guys been running for now?
[00:06:08] Speaker C: We started late 2018.
[00:06:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:11] Speaker C: Yeah. Just before COVID It all started because we started off as dice makers, and we were getting into D and D. Well, you'd been in it for ages.
[00:06:19] Speaker B: But I also played you.
[00:06:20] Speaker C: I had played in a campaign for two years before 2018, but Brandon had been playing it since he was, like, a kid. And one day, I think I was just, like, scrolling or something, and I was like, dice are cool. And Brandon just turned to me. He's like, why don't you make them? I was like, yeah, maybe one day. And then that. That year, like, maybe a week later, he had bought me a kit on, like, how to make dice. I'm like, whoa, let's go. I guess we're doing this.
[00:06:44] Speaker A: That's awesome.
[00:06:44] Speaker C: Yeah. And been obsessed ever since. It's been a long time now, actually. Yeah, I'm really proud we've kept Rei was going this long and we've put much effort into it. Been a lovely journey.
[00:06:57] Speaker A: And you managed to keep it going through all of the COVID time as well. So, you know, was that good for your business? Like it was for a lot of other nerdy makers out there?
[00:07:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it was pretty good for us, too. I don't think, like, back in those days, it was sort of. We didn't really have a proper business model or anything like that, and we didn't even have a proper website. We're just selling off of Etsy. But I remember back in those days we would sort of. We were pretty small time on Instagram, but whenever we would say, oh, we're doing a shop update, you know, it'd be kind of common for us to sell all the die sets that we made. And now that we're, like, bigger and all that kind of stuff stuff, we'll do a shop update and sell like a couple of sets of dice or something like that if we're lucky. So, like, it was definitely, you know, a lot better during COVID You know, people had more money too, because it wasn't. The economic situation wasn't as bad as it is now.
[00:07:39] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, also too, they weren't going out and spending money, so that probably also helped.
[00:07:44] Speaker B: Absolutely. That definitely helps.
[00:07:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
And so your dice making journey, that was predominantly you, Jesse.
[00:07:51] Speaker C: Yeah. So we both worked on it. I was more of, like, the making dice sanding, polishing, and Brandon would help out there. And Brandon's more of the game dev, website management, emails.
[00:08:01] Speaker B: I did all the boring stuff where you got to do the fun stuff.
[00:08:06] Speaker C: We're very grateful because paperwork is the bane of my existence.
[00:08:11] Speaker A: Yeah, it sounds like a dream team, though, like, playing off each other's strengths there.
[00:08:15] Speaker B: Yeah, we do work well together. I think.
[00:08:17] Speaker C: Definitely it's been good.
[00:08:18] Speaker B: I think that's why it survived so long.
[00:08:21] Speaker A: And even recently, I've seen some incredible Instagram posts with some of your dice, so it feels like it's definitely still something that you're, you know, quite passionate about.
[00:08:29] Speaker C: Yeah, I feel like we're evolving away from dice making a little bit because it was like the first thing we ever did. Um, and now that there's, like, many more dice makers and, um, more factories making dice, there's people kind of opting for the cheapest option and we noticed that we're, like, selling less and less dice, so we're like, okay, how can we still make ravens doge viable without it kind of crashing to the ground? Because we're not making dice sales. So we kind of expanded and started doing other accessories. Game dev and with so many projects on, especially the kickstarter, we're kind of like, dice making is still this beautiful thing we can do, but we can't. Like, we can no longer crank out, like, ten sets a month. It's kind of like one set a week. And we're like, oh, that was good. Look at this. All right, anyway.
[00:09:16] Speaker A: And what about commissions? Do you still get asked to do a lot of commissions? Do you still want to do commissions? Do you like doing commissions?
[00:09:24] Speaker C: Oh, okay. Commissions. Oh, my goodness. So I actually have a love hate relationship with commissions, where I mainly love them, mainly because I think it's so wonderful to hear other people's ideas. Like, some of the best die sets I've ever made was someone came to me with a commission, and they were like, hey, I want to make this. And I'm like, you're a genius. You're hired for when do you want to start?
And I make their set, and I'm like, this is a work of art. And you thought of this, like, that's so beautiful.
And I think the hate site comes from, like, when I make a set and I'm not happy with it, and I'm like, damn it. And then I make a set and I'm not happy with it. I'm like, damn it. And I do that four more times, and I have all of the same four set that. I'm like, these all suck.
[00:10:13] Speaker A: It's so challenging. I think it's probably the same. Well, it is the same with any art. You know, I've done my fair share of graphic design over the years as well, and I don't know. I mean, sometimes, though, we are our own worst critic, aren't we? You know?
[00:10:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:26] Speaker A: I've sometimes gone, I hate this. I cannot stand it. I have to show them something. I show a client, and they're like, I love it. It's amazing. You're like, I don't want to say why.
I think sometimes when we get into that kind of, you know, creative frustration, it's sometimes more us than people on the other end.
[00:10:49] Speaker B: Yeah, we do sort of get a fair few commissions, a lot more than we do of just, like, organic dye sales, I think. And then we've been having a lot of wedding commissions lately, actually. Which has been a lot of fun.
[00:10:58] Speaker A: Tell me about the wedding commissions we've had.
[00:11:00] Speaker B: So we did a. It was a woman in her. Was it a bridal party or was it like the groomsmen and the bridesmaids or something? Right. Funny, gentlemen, the most recent one you did.
[00:11:11] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, yeah.
So the bride is commissioning five sets that, um, are all the same. And they're like stars and clouds and kind of got like a royal. Royal, yeah. Blue through them. And it's such a beautiful idea. And I showed her the prototype and she was like, I love these. And I'm like, what are you gonna be doing with them? She's like, they're for the groomsmen. And I was like, oh, they must be into d and D. And her idea was actually to make a. What are they called? They're like a brooch. A brooch you pin. So the groomsmen are gonna have, like, the flower and then these dice just attached to their suits. Such a cool idea.
[00:11:47] Speaker B: Love it. Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:11:50] Speaker A: But I've heard a couple of other dice makers talking about, you know, like, doing. Doing wedding dice and stuff like that. It seems to be. Yeah, it seems to be a thing.
[00:12:00] Speaker B: So they're gonna make their own shit.
[00:12:02] Speaker A: I kind of wish when I got married about a million years ago that it was a thing back then, but.
[00:12:07] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure.
[00:12:08] Speaker C: Yeah. Usually it's dried flowers in the dice set.
[00:12:11] Speaker B: Like the bouquet.
[00:12:12] Speaker C: Yeah, like the bouquet. That's a cool idea, I guess.
[00:12:15] Speaker A: I mean, there's so many other things you could put into it. You could put, like, fragments of wedding dress.
There's all kinds of things you could do. I mean, and I guess, like, a lot of people want, like, memorial things as well, which is not something I understand, but, yeah, power to anyone who does.
[00:12:31] Speaker C: There's some interesting in that vein. So, like, their pet's ashes or the pet's hair, or, like, milk from when they were breastfeeding, trying to add to anything. There was one. One time, and we were like, that reacts badly with resin.
[00:12:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:47] Speaker A: Yeah. It's interesting. I think people have some great ideas, and there are some great dice makers out there, like yourselves, who go, I can run with that.
[00:12:56] Speaker B: We can try it out.
[00:12:57] Speaker A: We can try that. We'll see how that goes. Now, you said dice aren't the primary focus at the moment. So what's ravens Ridge focused on this second? You know, just looking at some of your Instagram photos, that kind of looks like you sell a bit of everything at your convention stalls.
[00:13:13] Speaker C: Yeah. You can you follow the journey of my hyper fixations. Yeah, yeah. There's dice we have into making, like, decorative potions, which look really cool on the bookshelf. And what else do we still like?
[00:13:27] Speaker B: You got into anthology.
[00:13:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:30] Speaker C: So one day I just woke up, and I was like, bugs are cool. And then started going ham on. Just doing silly little things with bugs.
[00:13:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Little domes and, like, the frames that you often see in, like, tattoo parlors, you know, with a insect spread out. Yeah.
[00:13:44] Speaker A: Oh, God. Wow. Okay. But that. I don't. I don't know if I could do that.
[00:13:49] Speaker C: It's really cool to see a spider up close and know it's not gonna mole you alive.
[00:13:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, that's mad. No, I don't. I'm not. I'm not a fan of arachnids.
[00:13:58] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:13:59] Speaker B: Yeah, that is fair.
[00:14:00] Speaker C: Not many people are. We usually get people come up to our table at conventions, and they're like, oh, pretty butterflies. And then they see the spider and, like, sprint in the other direction.
[00:14:10] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm just checking out your instagram. I had no idea, though. Bugs are so cool. It's like the big Beatles in the band. And, like, that was amazing.
[00:14:21] Speaker B: Yeah, you have a lot of fun with that. They held the domes. So, so hilarious.
[00:14:29] Speaker C: Yeah, I just. I don't know. I was doing not, like, normal bugs where you put a pretty little scorpion surrounded by flowers, and one day I woke up, I'm like, what if they're, like, sacrificing each other? And then it's just been a downward spiral. I'm making one right now where it's like a water based dome, and then I've piled, like. I've just glued a bunch of little rubber duckies together, and then I'm gonna have, like, one bug kind of sitting on top of the ducks in, like, this. What are they called? A tube?
[00:14:54] Speaker B: Yeah, the inflatable tube.
[00:14:55] Speaker C: Inflatable tube that also has ducks on it and, like. Yeah, see, that's what I would want to buy.
[00:15:00] Speaker A: I kind of want to ask what inspires you, but I'm not sure I want to know.
[00:15:05] Speaker C: Chaos. Black magic.
[00:15:08] Speaker B: I'm surprised you didn't talk about the other new one you're doing. Which? The one where you bought a bunch of those tiny, like, human figurines for dollhouses.
She's going to pile them all in a pile, cover them in blood, and have an insect on top.
[00:15:22] Speaker A: Victoria, where does this stuff come to you?
[00:15:24] Speaker C: Is it my prediction for the end of the world?
[00:15:29] Speaker B: The insect overlords are coming?
[00:15:31] Speaker C: Oh, no.
[00:15:32] Speaker A: But where does this stuff come to you?
[00:15:34] Speaker B: Dreams, nightmares?
[00:15:35] Speaker C: It's beamed into my head at nighttime.
[00:15:37] Speaker A: Purely from your warlock patron, like, yeah, I don't know. I feel like the Raven queen.
[00:15:45] Speaker B: Queen.
[00:15:46] Speaker C: If I stare at something long enough, I'm like, what if this? And then that's how I get my idea.
[00:15:52] Speaker B: Just watch too many horror movies or something. And I.
[00:15:55] Speaker C: No, I'm a little baby. It's funny because I talk about making, like, horror things, like things covered in blood and sacrifice, but I can't sit down and watch horror movie. I'll cry myself to sleep for like three months.
[00:16:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm no, I'm no good at horror movies. I like the, I like the kind of horror thriller type, you know?
[00:16:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:13] Speaker A: Suspenseful, but yeah, I don't know, I can't, I can't do the gore things.
[00:16:17] Speaker B: But, yeah, jump scares stuff, too. Who enjoys jump scares?
[00:16:22] Speaker A: Well, apparently a lot of people.
Now, this wouldn't be a discussion of the Ravens Ridge Emporium unless we chatted about your wildly successful Kickstarter cartograph. So do you want to tell us a little bit about that and your plans for the future?
[00:16:36] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah, that was our first big one. Yeah, we did like a tiny little tester one a year before cartographer, but that was only like a, I think the funding goal for that was like $200 and ended up making like a $1,000 or something. So I was pretty happy at the time, but it was more like a need to figure out how the hell Kickstarter even works. So that was that. But, yeah, catagraph was our first big one, and that was where we actually like, you know, we put some money into advertising for it and, you know, we got a lot of help, you know, designing the Kickstarter page and all that kind of stuff. And. Yeah, and it went really, really well. It was really, really shocking, actually. I don't think we thought it was going to go as well as it did. And it's just been surreal. It's been sick.
[00:17:12] Speaker A: Yeah, it look, I mean, it looks absolutely fantastic. The campaign page. Yeah, I love the, love the video. I love, you know, and the constant contact with people, I think is super important. Like, yeah, backers love that. They love to hear that you're still very much involved in it and all of that sort of stuff.
[00:17:29] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
[00:17:30] Speaker A: But tell us a little bit about cartograph.
[00:17:33] Speaker B: Yeah, sure. So cartograph was born out of, it was like one of my first games, and it came from me sitting down to sort of design a homebrew world that I wanted to run a fantasy game in, and I was sitting down to make the world map, and I was like, okay, yeah, this is gonna be awesome. And I sat down and I was like, oh, man, I got nothing. And I sat there for ages trying to think of, you know, like, I tried those techniques where you, like, throw rice or grains along the page and trace it to do the coastline, that kind of stuff. And I was like, this actually sucks. I'm having a terrible time. So I was like, you know what? I would have a lot more fun if this was a game. And so that's kind of the whole premise of cartograph. Like, the idea is you're, the character you're playing is a cartographer that's gone to this new land, and you need to map it out. And so as you play, you're actually drawing this world map, you know, within the parameters of the game, and by the end of it, you'll have a fully fleshed out world map that you can use in a homebrew setting with all of the locations, like, fleshed out to a degree that you could just drop it in and run a game in it. So that's sort of like the whole premise of cartograph, and it involves a lot of rolling dice, because we are dice goblins, of course.
[00:18:33] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:18:34] Speaker B: Absolutely. You wouldn't be a game without it. So, yeah, so that's sort of cartograph. And I released an early version that I just sort of threw up on itch, and that had, like, positive response, and it was sitting there for, like, a year, and I thought, oh, I kind of want to just complete it, tie up all these loose ends, and sort of fully flesh out the entire game. And that's where the Atlas edition was born. So that's why it's cardigraph, Atlas edition. It's kind of like a second edition, I guess. And we'd done, like, a few test prints on, like, print on demand services and other kind of stuff, too, because I wasn't really sure how to produce something like that. And it just, like, print on demand is all right, but you're never going to get that great quality, I don't think, as well. So we ended up going, like, to an overseas printer, and that was just, like, a whole new thing, too, because we'd never, ever worked with, like, an actual factory before, and that was sister, it was really cool. We learned so much, and we made a lot of mistakes, but we learned from them all too, so.
[00:19:27] Speaker A: But that's the good thing, too. And I think, you know, like something I've seen with Kickstarter is, you know, people have, you know, they have a test run. It works. It's good. They have, have a good one, then they have a little bit of rapport. Hopefully.
Hopefully they have a good rapport and then the next one, you know, should be easier. Yeah, I mean, just as much work.
[00:19:46] Speaker B: Obviously, but, yeah, hopefully less hiccups, though. That's, yeah, definitely found quite a few hiccups to this.
[00:19:53] Speaker A: It's the problem with it, isn't it? Like, you kind of, you know, you're suddenly, you know, you're putting yourself in front of a whole lot of people and, you know, there's a whole lot of expectations and you've got, you've got, you know, distribution, delivery, you know, logistics. Like, there's. There's so many issues apart from manufacture and, yeah, you know, shipping containers getting lost in the process and, you know.
[00:20:16] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, all sorts. Absolutely. We ended up doing the distribution ourselves for this.
[00:20:21] Speaker A: Right.
[00:20:22] Speaker B: Which at the time, we were like, you know, oh, this will be a cool little toe in the water kickstarter. So we didn't expect to, you know, need to do more than maybe 200 orders and we got like 600. So it was like triple what we thought we're going to do. And so then we were just there, like, okay, I guess we don't have a lounge room anymore because we have, you know, bubble mailers stacked to the ceiling and just like, crates and crates of books everywhere and, like, shipping labels everywhere. Like, okay, have we done? You know, it was just, it was chaotic, but, yeah, we made a few mistakes, but, like, thankfully, most people have just been, like, very receptive to just sort of us admitting we've done mistakes and trying to, you know, remedy them as quickly as we can. And, yeah, everyone's been really, really lovely in the Kickstarter and everyone's been so supportive and stuff, too. Been understanding that it's our first go at something this scale, which is really nice. And, you know, it's been a good experience overall.
[00:21:12] Speaker C: Yeah. And it's exciting to do the next one because we've already planned, like, our next six king size.
[00:21:17] Speaker A: Nice.
[00:21:18] Speaker C: Because the next one, I'm like, we're not going to make any of these mistakes again. It's going to be bigger and better and we're just going to keep learning.
[00:21:25] Speaker A: And growing bigger and better mistakes.
[00:21:27] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:21:30] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:21:31] Speaker A: But what, I don't know, can you, can you tell us anything about the next game for you?
[00:21:36] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, next for you. Yeah. Hey, go for it.
We've got this card game, this one that Jesse's designed. It's called monster match.
[00:21:44] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:21:44] Speaker B: It's like a light little family game where you're sort of pairing up these little cute critters together based on their color, sort of making these friendships. So that's going to be the next one. That's where we're going to be sort of showcasing that at PAX. And then I think next year, the other Raven, he's got a solo role playing game that he's been developing for the last couple of years. And it's a phenomenal game. It's called caught in the Rain and it's like a noir detective sort of solo role playing game. And it uses this really fantastic mechanic with a deck of cards. And so you have this mystery that you're trying to solve. It utilizes three cards from the face cards that are taken out, and those represent what the actual answer is to the mystery. And throughout the game, you sort of reveal the other cards that are left, sort of doing a process of elimination to try and piece these things together. And then you tie it all into the narrative and. Yeah, so we're going to do that probably march, I think, next year. Something around there maybe sort of in time for. For zine quest that kicks the run and. Yeah, then I think after that might be Alpha directive, that Sci-Fi game that we've been playing on and off. And maybe we'll try. We're going to try and do two a year, maybe one for ZineQuest, one for Pax. Gives us a nice bit of breathing room between each one.
[00:22:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Wow, you've got a bit of a taste for it now, then.
[00:22:52] Speaker B: Yeah, we do.
Yeah, absolutely.
[00:22:56] Speaker C: You should see us. We're at. It's like 02:00 a.m. brandon will shake me awake and be like, all right, game idea. And I'll immediately have pen and paper, like, bring it all, baby.
[00:23:06] Speaker A: Now, you've done a lot of conventions in Australia at this point. What's been your favorite so far?
[00:23:11] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's easy. It's tabletop Con, right?
[00:23:14] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, we love a good tabletop con.
[00:23:15] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Where's that one in?
[00:23:18] Speaker B: Tabletop Con is held in Gold coast, right?
[00:23:21] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:23:23] Speaker B: And it's like, it's all focused on game design. So it's like, got a lot of board game designers there. It's got a lot of card game, uh, tabletop role playing, game designers and stuff. But it also has like, you know, dice makers and all sorts of cool, you know, makers showing off their wares, but it's like, quite small. Like, it's, you know, a quarter of the size of, like a small supernova sort of thing. So, you know, we definitely don't make as much sales, but it's so much more fun and, like, the energy is so much more. There's, like, so much more of a community energy there and there's all sorts of games going on at the same time. Like, upstairs they have role playing games and war games happening and there's like, heaps of little events that happen and we really like the guys that run it, too. They're brilliant.
[00:24:01] Speaker A: And so have you done cons, you know, across most of Australia at the moment, or do you primarily stick to the east coast?
[00:24:08] Speaker B: Pretty much the east coast, yeah. So we sort of stay up Queensland. We went down to Sydney this year, but we didn't do it last year and we're going down to Melbourne this year, too. So we're going down to Pax and that's about as far as I think we'll probably go. It's just one of those cases where, like, if we were just selling dice and we had enough stock that we think it'd be worth. It would totally, like, fly to, you know, Perth or Adelaide or whatever, but it's just, you know, we got to drive everywhere because we've got, you know, bottles, potion bottles we can't really take and, like, you know, crates of books that we want to try and sell. So it's just a bit unfeasible. But maybe, like, you know, one day, if we can assume it's going to be lucrative enough to sort of pay for the journey, you know, it'd be cool to, like, do a big road trip down to Adelaide or I, you know, maybe Perth. That might be a bit of a stretch. Yeah.
[00:24:53] Speaker A: Our Perth listeners are like, come on, please.
I've definitely been looking at the convention roster for the next twelve months going, where do I spend the money I don't have? And I think anytime I've spoken to anyone from the US, they're a bit shocked at how expensive conventions are in Australia.
[00:25:11] Speaker B: It's ridiculous.
[00:25:11] Speaker A: It's just not uncommon for a convention to be like, you know, $2,500 for a small booth, you know, then on top of that you've got travel and fuel, you know, probably accommodation. If it's a multi day event and, you know, we're a business, it's not just enough to recoup that. You've actually got to turn a profit. Right.
[00:25:30] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:31] Speaker A: Which, you know, can, can just be a real challenge sometimes.
[00:25:34] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:25:34] Speaker A: And I think the other thing, too is we don't have a lot of, you know, small nerdy maker markets or ren fairs or anything like that. Right.
[00:25:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:42] Speaker A: So, yeah, we've really got to hone in on which events you want to commit to and, you know, how far you want to travel and all of that sort of stuff. So it's a bit of a challenge.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: No, you know, I think we're all spread out, too. Right. In Australia, there's so much distance between everyone.
[00:25:57] Speaker A: But speaking of big conventions, tell me about Pax. That sounds really exciting.
[00:26:01] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, we're really excited for PAx. Like, this will be your first time even attending as a. As a customer. Like, you've never seen Pax before.
[00:26:09] Speaker C: Hey, yeah, no, I know context of what PAx even is.
[00:26:13] Speaker B: Oh, it's so cool.
[00:26:14] Speaker C: But Brandon went last year and was sending me videos like, this is a magical wonderland.
[00:26:19] Speaker B: Yeah, they were really excited. We ended up getting a booth. There is a couple of friends of ours that run a company called 1000 Rats, and they're game designers. They've made this really cool little card game, and they ended up going to Essen in Germany, the huge board game convention. And so they had a table at PAX, and Essen's the same time as Pax Australia. So they were like, okay, we had this table, but we're going to a bigger and better convention, basically. So do you want our spot? And we were like, hell, yeah, we do.
[00:26:46] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:26:47] Speaker B: Jumping on that. So we grabbed their spot and we're going to go down there and we're going to showcase little card game that we're going to be running the kickstarter for around the same time. Little card game that Jesse's mainly been the designer of and the artist of. It's a cute little sort of family game, but so we're going to be showcasing that cardigraph and then also hopefully selling some dice and some of that sort of stuff, too. But, yeah, it's going to be huge, really.
[00:27:08] Speaker A: And a bit of the other stuff as well.
[00:27:10] Speaker B: Yeah, I think the Pax guys, they contacted us and, like, we have obviously, like, some of the insects and the potions and all that kind of stuff on our instagram. And they sort of contacted us saying, hey, just make sure you only bring, like, game related stuff, you know, don't bring your bugs. Stay together with our stuff.
[00:27:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:25] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:27:25] Speaker A: All right.
[00:27:26] Speaker B: Yeah, we're gonna have to, like, keep some of our stock home, which is fair enough. Right? Yeah. It'd be kind of odd to go to Pax and see like a gothic entomology take or something. Yeah. Sort of be like a little out of place.
[00:27:36] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess it's not. It's a little different. Like, they don't kind of have the artist alley type area, like at supernova or anything like that. Yeah, it is. It is a very different vibe because I've got to say, yeah, it's a huge, huge focus, obviously, on the esports and the gaming and stuff like that, which, which is really cool. I mean, that, that draws the massive crowds, but.
[00:27:59] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:28:00] Speaker A: But the tabletop section, I think, traditionally has been a lot of fun, you know, and there's so many games to play and, you know, so many, like, even the tables of, you know, game devs looking for a, you know, looking for feedback.
I really like that as well. So, yeah, that sounds huge. And look, I mean, for anyone out there who's ever tried getting a table at PAx, it's not easy. So, no, basically, if you wanted to get a table for next year, you probably wanted to book, you know, six months ago. So it's quite a challenge. I've actually put in a proposal for a panel for PAx this year, which would actually be really cool if it comes about. So it's going to be, you know, talking dice and some of the local Melbourne dice makers as well, just doing a panel about, you know, dice making in Australia and getting into the hobby and all of that sort of stuff. So, yeah, that'll be a lot of fun. So if anyone's listening from PAx, please, please approve our panel so that we can, we can come along this year as well.
Brandon, I know you've developed a couple of games now. I'm actually really interested in how you kind of come up with a concept or a theme for a game. Like what kind of inspires you to, you know, to sit down and write some kind of new system.
[00:29:16] Speaker B: Games are like, I don't know, it's bizarre where the ideas come from. Like, I think it's one of those phenomenon where I've probably subconsciously absorbed things throughout the day that I've thought, oh, that's cool. Oh, that's cool. And then, like, 90% of the time, it will be literally that thing that Jesse just said before where ill wake up in the middle of the night and I'll be like, oh, my God, this idea, it's great. I need to write it down. And so I'll wake Jesse up and write it down. And in the morning, I'll either be like, what the hell does this sentence even say? What does this mean? Or I'll be like, oh, yeah, that idea. Let's turn that into a game. But I think it's a lot of those little subconscious things where I've seen things.
[00:29:52] Speaker A: So is it normally the theme you come up with first or the game mechanics? I know as a bit of an engineer myself, I often look at a game and go, oh, well, that really frustrates me. But I kind of liked, yeah, I kind of liked how. How the theme worked out. Right.
[00:30:08] Speaker B: Sometimes. Sometimes it's one way or the other. I think a majority of the time it's the concept, and then I'll. And I'll try and fit the mechanics to it, but there has been times where I've done the jolt awake at night and I'm thinking of a mechanic instead that I haven't got any sort of theme for yet. Um, but I. It's like. And making games as well, it's a really, it's quite a long process, because I don't think there's no methodology you can really follow to just be finding out the right mechanism for it, especially if you're trying to do something innovative. You just have to keep fumbling around and trying random stuff until something is like, oh, actually, that kind of works here. And then you just follow where those leads run, I guess.
But, yeah, a lot of the time, it'll just be a concept, and I'll sit down and stare at my computer for a good while, just in my obsidian vault or something, and I'll just be trying to piece together the mechanics that will make this work. And I usually just try and focus on a part at a time. So I'll be like, okay, so my concept is like, you're making a map as this cartographer. So what does the map making part of this look like? And I'll basically sit down and try and flesh that part out, and I'll go, okay, what would support this narrative? Probably, like, resource management or something like that. That would make it a bit gamified and be interesting and make your decisions more interesting as you play. So I think taking it piecemeal and approaching it like that, that's how I sort of go. And then I'll try and, you know, to make sure everything runs together. Playtesting is the most important. Like, there's no. No substitute for just playing your game hundreds of times to figure out what's wrong with it because there's always something.
[00:31:35] Speaker A: And speaking of gaming systems, wizards of the coaster, you know, in the process of relaunching their Players handbook and Dungeon Masters guide. And have you been following along with that at all?
[00:31:47] Speaker B: No, we haven't. We haven't really played Deedee in a long time. And, like, I still have, you know, tomes and tomes of d and D volumes from five b back to ad and d. But, you know, I don't think it's something that we'll return to unless, you know, our group has a particular penchant to return to because I just have so many stacks of other interesting games on my shelf that I would rather try out, you know?
[00:32:09] Speaker A: And so what are they? You know, I mean, are we talking established gaming systems or more indie developers or.
[00:32:17] Speaker B: I. Both, I think. Definitely both, you know? Yeah. Like, I think we're probably gonna try and play a vampire masquerade game sometime soon.
[00:32:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:26] Speaker B: And so, you know, that's a pretty big one. And then on the contrary, there's a role playing game called Bluebeard's bride that I really want to play soon. And that's a pretty indie title. And this fascinating concept where every player is playing a different psychological aspect of the same person.
[00:32:42] Speaker A: Oh, wow. Okay. That sounds really interesting.
[00:32:44] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Really bizarre. I'm like, how can I pass up wanting to play that? That sounds so cool.
[00:32:49] Speaker A: Yeah, no, no, that. That sounds really unique, actually. You know, I've really enjoyed those instagram posts you've been doing of like, here's a system that you should be looking at. Like, oh, cool. You need to keep doing that. I love that because, you know, I'm not into game design. I'm not particularly on these. These indie, you know, role playing sites. Like, I like to know about it.
[00:33:11] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
[00:33:12] Speaker A: Good to shine a light on some of that as well. But yeah, speaking of that, let's chat about some of the other. The other accounts you like to follow. Dice makers, game makers.
[00:33:23] Speaker C: Well, I got a list ready.
[00:33:25] Speaker A: Oh, here's what I prepared earlier.
[00:33:30] Speaker B: You did make a list, didn't you?
[00:33:31] Speaker C: Yeah, I did. I'm constantly trying to recommend other businesses to other people. So I've always got, like, a list of businesses I love. I have tackled different realms here of many recommendations.
[00:33:43] Speaker A: Bring it on.
[00:33:43] Speaker C: So we actually work with a Twitch streamer called Winter's Tales. And they're doing this amazing series at the moment that we're sponsoring where it's called Castleton and it's like Bridgerton versus Hunger Games. And she's kind of blended those two ideas and she has over 150 different content creators on board.
[00:34:03] Speaker B: Yeah, they're all players.
[00:34:05] Speaker A: Huge.
[00:34:06] Speaker C: Yeah. And they're all such good actors and it can make you cry. So I always recommend that, like watching that d and D stream because like we're part of it and it's beautiful and it's actually really good.
[00:34:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:17] Speaker C: For fantasy things in general, not so much dice maker, but like prop stuff, wizardy vibes. We always recommend midnight ritual.
[00:34:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:25] Speaker C: They're the most beautiful people and they have the coolest stuff. Like every time I go to their stall I'm like, how do I buy everything without like going birdhouse? For dice makers, we've been really loving winter wormling, which is a Melbourne maker. Yeah. I love their team. It's what we really aspire for because one's a dice maker, one's the dice bag maker, one's a 3d printer. And I was like, yes. See, that is a dream team right there.
[00:34:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:34:51] Speaker C: And they're just so lovely and they're really expanding and just doing so well for themselves.
[00:34:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:57] Speaker C: And lastly, d 20 source co, which is a D and d themed hot sauce company.
[00:35:04] Speaker A: Right, okay. Wow. Right? Yep.
[00:35:07] Speaker C: Yeah, I guess nerds that really love hot sauce and we've been loving their business. They're just so, so cool and just nerdy. Anything nerd, notify anything and I'm there for it.
[00:35:19] Speaker A: I just opened up their website. I'm terrified of the necromancer.
Some awesome recommendations there. And Brandon, how about any game designers that you follow?
[00:35:33] Speaker B: Oh, any game designers? Yeah. Okay. There's a Sydney group called Story brewers and they do some excellent indie role playing games and they did their biggest one I think is called Good Society, which is like a, you know, a Bridgerton esque style role playing game. And it's got some fascinating ideas in it too. It doesn't use dice. First resolution mechanic, which is.
[00:35:56] Speaker A: That's a shame, isn't it?
[00:35:57] Speaker B: It is a shame. But it's like, it's interesting too, but, yeah, so story brewers are really, really great. I really like them as game designers and 1000 rats to those guys who mentioned earlier that gave us their pax booth. They make some great games.
Yeah.
[00:36:11] Speaker C: And they're just the most lovely people ever. Yeah, they're beautiful walking rays of sunshine.
[00:36:15] Speaker A: Yeah, that's always nice too, right?
[00:36:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:36:20] Speaker A: You hate when people are doomy and gloomy about their, you know, their passion projects and their.
[00:36:24] Speaker B: I.
Yeah, exactly. Like, why are you doing it?
[00:36:29] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. I think, look, it's in this industry we're literally about games, right? People play games because it makes them happy, hopefully.
I hate to think that people are playing games because they have to or because some generational curse or something like that. So generally, people are playing games because they enjoy it. And, you know, like, as. As members of that community, we should really be enjoying it as well, right? Like, it's.
[00:37:01] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. Absolutely. We did have one time, actually, where we were in a role playing group, and it seems kind of, like, rare that there'd be someone playing games, that they actually wouldn't be having a fun time doing it. But there was this member of our party, and he was playing. I can't even remember what character he was playing, but every single time we're sitting down at the table, he just looked glum and, like, disinterested and, like, the DM wasn't, like a, you know, team was good. And I talked to him sort of after maybe five or so sessions, I was like, you know, why are you playing? You seem like you really don't enjoy it. He was like, yeah, I don't think D and D for me. And I'm like, what are you. Why are you playing? And he's like, oh, I'm just really worried that you guys will have some cool moment and I won't be there for it. I'm like, are you sitting here for, like, 4 hours every week and just, like, wishing you weren't here? Like, I don't think that's worth it, man.
[00:37:47] Speaker A: Well, maybe it is. I mean, I've had some of those moments where you're like, if I'd missed that.
[00:37:51] Speaker B: Yeah, true. That is true.
Yeah.
[00:37:55] Speaker A: That's so good. What's the best place for people to reach out to you? Obviously, you know anyone who's heading along to Pax in October.
[00:38:03] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:38:04] Speaker A: Gonna see Ravens Ridge live there. It's gonna be really exciting.
[00:38:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Come say hi.
[00:38:09] Speaker C: Yeah, it'll be crazy good. Usually you can contact us on Instagram.
[00:38:13] Speaker B: It's the best place.
[00:38:14] Speaker C: Yeah, it's the best place. We're always down for a chat. It's poppin midnight. Oi, Ravens. And I'll be like, what do you need?
[00:38:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
And then it's sort of also, like, amongst all the other socials to some degree. Like, a little bit on Facebook, a little bit on Twitter.
[00:38:29] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:38:31] Speaker B: Little bit on discord.
[00:38:32] Speaker A: TikTok.
[00:38:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah, on TikTok, too. But I don't think we chat as much on TikTok. Instagram's.
[00:38:38] Speaker C: Well, I feel like more people comment on TikTok, but they don't like DM or chat.
[00:38:43] Speaker B: It's kind of like they pop into.
[00:38:44] Speaker C: The comments just to say something.
[00:38:46] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:38:47] Speaker A: You mentioned you're still interested in doing dice commissions and stuff like that. I saw that you've still got a form on your website.
[00:38:52] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:38:53] Speaker A: People can still reach out if they've got a cracking good idea, right?
[00:38:56] Speaker C: Absolutely. I'm always down for new ideas.
[00:38:59] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[00:39:04] Speaker A: Well, thanks so much for chatting today. I've had a great time. We've had a lot of laughs. Hopefully we hear from you guys again.
You know, probably just in time for Pax or for your new run of Kickstarters. It'd be great to have you back on the program again.
[00:39:17] Speaker B: Yeah, we'd love to pop back in and have a chat. It's been awesome chatting. Yeah.
[00:39:21] Speaker A: And that's all we've got time for today. So thank you so much for listening to Talking Dice.
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